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For anyone here who wants to write and read in English

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For anyone here who wants to write and read in English
Julienle 05 mai 2019 à 14:50

That's bout it.

So what's up ? How's everyone ? Anythin' you wana talk about ?

Respect, yall :))

Merlinle 05 mai 2019 à 15:02

I believe there is a similar thread somewhere already. Yup, found it :
[url]https://www.apie-people.com/forum/discussions-libres/discussions-diverses/let-try-to-write-in-english-2032[/url]

Didn't work well though. Hopefully this one will...

Julienle 05 mai 2019 à 15:05

Ow my apology for not seeing that, I tried and check if there was no existing one already, but couldn't find it.

NabouNaboule 05 mai 2019 à 15:08

Is there so much second degree in this language that I don't understand in French?

Julienle 05 mai 2019 à 15:11

@ NabouNabou

I don't know, I never really thought about that actually...

By the way, is there not an English word for what French people call "second degré" ? Is there actually such a thing, in English ?

I'm asking openely, coz' I don't really know ! Irony, for sure, but French has Ironie too... Sarcasm, but again, French has its own sarcasme...

Second degré seems like a thing of its own...

Merlinle 05 mai 2019 à 15:18

That's the thing with idiomatic expressions, they usually don't translate well. But it's not because they exist in one language and not in the other that the whole concept they refer to isn't valid. I usually translate it with "tongue in the cheek", which would be more like "pince sans rire", but it conveys the meaning well to native English speakers I suppose.

NabouNaboule 05 mai 2019 à 15:28

I never understand the second degree in French and I was wondering if in English it could be different.
when I was young my stepmother told me: I tell you shit for your exam, I wanted to strangle him :(

Julienle 05 mai 2019 à 20:19

"Second degré" suggestions : figurative level, offbeat humor, not literal, "with a pinch of salt"...

My feeling is that I've actually rarely come across those expressions : "second degré" doesn't seem to be a pretty common way of practicing humor in English languages, this "autoparodie, humour autoréférentiel".

I still feel like British humor, contains a lot of irony and self parody, expressed in a cold blooded, flegmatic, inexpressive way... Maybe not that much in American English...

But that "second degré", I feel no English word can actually precisely convey the meaning, like the French expression, which is actually very clear and technical, like mecanics.

Julienle 05 mai 2019 à 20:21

I was a frequent user of second degré humor, it was actually my norm of communication, but I've had to stop it coz it's quite confusing in the end. Like, the use of language is to get understand, not to laugh. Laughing is great, but getting understood is more important :)

Julienle 05 mai 2019 à 20:27

@ NabouNabou

So do you feel like there's a lot of second degré used in your everyday life, that brings you confusion ?

Merlinle 05 mai 2019 à 20:30

A great example of British humour imported into the US is John Oliver. He's now a mix of both, I suppose... I never miss one of his shows.

https://www.youtube.com/user/LastWeekTonight

NabouNaboule 05 mai 2019 à 22:09

Thanks for the explanation.
Yes "second degré" from strangers hurts me lot. I prefer a clear and simple discussion. When I dare to speak I don't have filter, it makes me vulnerable. But I can t blame people for playing with our beautiful language. I learned to smile stupidly now to do like everyone else

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 08:44

Second degré, to me, is like playing a game, but not everyone in the audience knows about the rules of that game...

Merlinle 06 mai 2019 à 08:45

This definition would suit better to "inside joke", wouldn't it ?

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 11:35

yeah, it's kindova private joke in a way...

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 16:52

Yeah, so, if anyone interested : The United States of America.

To make it short : I HATE America, just as much as I HATE any nation, or human collective, that wants to conquer. To me, France is no better than America, in that regard. So many other reasons anyway, but it's not the point here.

But then I LOVE many things about American culture, and yes, it might be pop, or light, or tacky, but for sure it's playful, there's an easyness, a lightness to it, and also it's physical, it's incarnated, dynamic, young. Language is easy to assemble, like a child game, it's very visual and flexible. You can break words and reassemble them with other parts of other words, easy, just like that ; you invent a new word and you're understood instantly.

Surprising coz' we know how important ownership is, to Americans, but it seems like American language doesn't belong to no one : to my knowledge there are no "guardians" of the language, very powerful collectives that influence the destiny of the language, or anything like that ? Anyone can take any word and break it and reassemble it and play with it.

I feel like France is an adult and America's still a child. Actually, I've heard that a few times already, that Americans are children in the eyes of some French people. But that's what I like about it ! I love both cultures, but I find America vital to me also because when I speak English, there's this physical part of me that's a bit reppressed when I speak French. When I speak English, I'm actually almost dancing. Emotions are manifested in the body. Even just facial expressions are more assertive, muscular...

Very, very different energies...

Merlinle 06 mai 2019 à 17:06

I think that people living in a country are a very different matter than the system of government and the policy they apply. I have American friends. I appreciate their cultures (they are more diverse than one could think). Most of them hate their government as much as I hate Macron and all he does to France.
I'd say cultural background (and culture in general) is what really defines a people, much more than a flag or a nation. I admit that American culture is way too contaminated by commerce and financial gain, but still... Can't help but liking lots of it :)
And of course, all French, Americans, British and any label-nation in the world is composed of individuals who might be different or similar to me in many aspects. When it comes to human relationships, I don't care about nationality or even language, what matters is the mind behind. But as groups of people sharing a culture, some "American tribes" are really, really cool ;)

NabouNaboule 06 mai 2019 à 17:09

I wondered yesterday why this feeling of being more at ease in English when I was bad student. Am I a child? i select * from your post

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 17:21

@ NabouNabou

You do feel more at ease when you speak in English ? And French is your native language ?

NabouNaboule 06 mai 2019 à 17:25

Yep.. 🙁

NabouNaboule 06 mai 2019 à 17:26

I read and understood your posts much faster than in French

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 17:27

Well I got that feelin' too. I feel I'm kind of struggling, when I speak French. I like that struggle, that's a big part of me, but then, in American English, I feel like a flow, a vibe, that relaxes me...

NabouNaboule 06 mai 2019 à 17:30

yeah too..when I meet English tourists in a cafe I sit next to it relaxes me. yet I hated my English teacher

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 17:34

Well I was lucky coz' when I was 14, our English teacher was this kinda baba, really relaxed 50 y.o. guy, who didn't like tests, and quite often he'd take us to the movies or watch a movie in the school library. Movies from UK and US with subtitles, so he first transmitted a passion for cinema, and from that passion, derived my passion for English languages... Pretty lucky hey !

May this good man's name be pronounced here : Monsieur Faith.

(for real : my teacher's name was Mr Faith, with that exact spelling - I even asked some of my school friend for confirmation, coz' that seemed crazy to me :)))

NabouNaboule 06 mai 2019 à 17:44

I had few English videos the most interesting was "Asterix chez les Bretons" my teacher's name was Ms. Fredj. I could not listen and spent my days drawing Omer Simpson 😂 I realized that I vibrated more watching movies and series with title. it's a funny feeling

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 18:20

with subtitles you mean ?

NabouNaboule 06 mai 2019 à 18:23

Yes 🙂

Julienle 06 mai 2019 à 18:36

And then have you lived abroad ? You more UK or US English, or any other else ?

Julienle 09 mai 2019 à 09:12

@Liloumultipeace

Hey wodup ? :)

Merlinle 09 mai 2019 à 09:50

At first I learned to speak American. Then I learned British. And now I have fun with both !

Julienle 09 mai 2019 à 09:53

@Merlin
Yeah I usually turn Bristish when I get drunk :))

Julienle 09 mai 2019 à 19:00

Anyone familiar with Ayn Rand ?

She is a novelist and philosopher, born in Russia, emigrated in USA in 1926.

What's amazing about her, is that NOBODY knows who she is here in France, except people who have a significant knowledge in American history and culture. She is literaly UNKNOWN in France.

But in USA : "In 1991 the Book of the Month Club and Library of Congress asked readers to name the most influential book in their lives: Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand's most famous novel) came in second only to the Bible." The influence of this writer in modern America is tremendous.

"The theme of Atlas Shrugged, according to Ayn Rand, "is the role of the mind in man's existence." It is the mind, the story shows, that is the root of all human knowledge and values -- and its absence is the root of all evil.

For Rand reason is needed not just by a theoretical scientist in his lab, but by all of us at all times. All of the novel's heroes are thinkers: they demonstrate an ongoing commitment to understanding their work, themselves and the world around them. They choose their goals and values by a process of thought, never putting their desires above the facts.

The villains, on the other hand, are those who defy reason and evade facts, acting on what's left: their feelings. As a result, they are in constant conflict with reality and achieve nothing. This is what leads one of the novel's heroes to the conclusion that thinking is the basic virtue life requires, and that the anti-mind is the anti-life."

NabouNaboule 09 mai 2019 à 21:13

C'est très intéressant je vais acheter ce livre en français

Julienle 09 mai 2019 à 21:28

@NabouNabou

Let me just mention that I didn't mean to advertise for that book - actually, I didn't like it at all ! But what fascinates me, is the total blackout of that author in France : it's like France totally rejected it.

Atlas Shrugged was initially published in 1957 in USA, but :

"Pendant 54 ans, presque aucune traduction en français n'est disponible, hormis celle, incomplète, réalisée par un éditeur suisse en 1958 et dont ne se trouvaient que quelques exemplaires dans de rares bibliothèques. En novembre 2009, une traduction pirate a été diffusée sur Internet. En 2011, une traduction française officielle, par Sophie Bastide-Foltz, sort aux Éditions Les Belles Lettres/Fondation Andrew Lessman, sous le titre de "La Grève." (wiki)

"D'après l'auteur elle-même, Atlas Shrugged a pour thème « le rôle de l'esprit humain dans la société ». Il décrit ce qui se passe lorsque la violence de l'État empêche l'esprit de fonctionner, soit directement, soit en poussant les « hommes d'esprit », les créateurs de richesse, à refuser de servir une société qui trouve normal de les traiter comme des esclaves. L'intrigue met donc en scène des « hommes d'esprit » (scientifiques indépendants, entrepreneurs honnêtes, artistes individualistes, travailleurs consciencieux) dont la disparition mystérieuse provoque crises et catastrophes. Celui qui les entraîne dans cette « grève », dans ce retrait, est John Galt, héros randien type, à la fois entrepreneur, philosophe et grand savant inventeur."

Loisele 18 août 2019 à 22:27

Three imaginary boys. Writing in English.

Merlinle 19 août 2019 à 08:22

A Cure reference ! I appreciate that, thanks :)

Loisele 19 août 2019 à 10:12

The Cure is my long term drug. I'm in love with Robert.

Gottheimle 19 août 2019 à 17:12

The whole point of a drug is to be a Cure. So I'd say... mission accomplished? 😋

Myrtillele 05 octobre 2019 à 22:08

Hello ! I have a copy of Atlas Shrugged 😉
But I'd rather read books by Agatha Christie and Daphne du Maurier. My last reading in English was Hag-Seed by Margaret Atwood.

Chiarale 07 décembre 2019 à 17:15

Ayn Rand " The Fountainhead", discovered about 10 years ago.

Globulonle 07 décembre 2019 à 18:03

can you discribe this one? i don't speak properly english yet,but it relaxing me to read and see all this words who seems to be "rond" like a globulon, i don't no how explain , just write if you want

Chiarale 07 décembre 2019 à 18:28

My english is not properly either. If you're expecting "rond" and flowing words, you ll be disappointed 🙂

Globulonle 07 décembre 2019 à 18:50

certainly not, your answer is really good for my health.
well.. an exemple.
"discribe" word is more flow and "rond" than "dékrrrire" word for me.This is "agressif".
there's one month , i searched "généralement" word in my head not in my ass it's not possible and after few minutes i found him..i said shit.. it's not possible .. i was a bad student at the school . 😭

Fropople 07 décembre 2019 à 22:51

Well, I will write a bit in english, I don't know what to say but if that could make you at peace @Globulon, that's great. I also think it's a good exercise for me to express myself with less thinking so let's try !
I think I quite understand what you mean when you say that the flow of english is smoother than french's one.
I also was bad at school in English among other non-scientifics topics.
I'm am curious about the fact that many foreigners find that french sounds beautifull, for me it's kinda neutral. I mean that's the way I think so I do not have any particular opinion on its sonority so if someone could try to express what they like in spoken french, I qould gretly appreciate.
That's all for now, dunno what to say anymore ^^"

Globulonle 07 décembre 2019 à 23:11

yes i'am relax with this. it's more easyer to read quickly, i have not many vocabulary, iam writing without translator more and more, iam thinking that it's possible to think in english and delete french negative words of my head.
iam feeling good when i hear this langage, his frequency is between 2000 and 16000 hz, maybe this is the reason why i like this. i don't no..
i'am tired fropop 😴 thanks

Strangerquarkle 07 décembre 2019 à 23:58

Hello ! Your post just caught my attention because believe it or not, I speak English in my head since I've heard the English alphabet when I was 6. Well first I just spelled words, but I attended to an English language degree at Colledge (and did not pass it, mainly because I speak my own English I guess)

Don't know why I still do that. I try to memorize things instead to keep my mind busy, but I alway come back to this useless habit.

Tangle 08 décembre 2019 à 09:19

@Globulon Sometimes I feel better in english because it's not natural to speak or write in english. I need so much concentration, so my brain is focus and is forgetting everything. It's a way to escape the boring thoughts.


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